MVC Rumors

8-Time MVC Regular Season Champions
5-Time MVC Tournament Champions
10 NCAA Tournament Appearances
3 Sweet 16 Appearances
19 Post-Season appearances

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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby monticello_saluki » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:41 pm

pedrn82 wrote:Uic brings many things to the table. Their baseball field puts ours to shame, and they are getting an upgrade from a major donation from a detour big leaguer . The basketball facility is ok but overall they bring exposure for the valley to Chicago area. Aldo you have s chance for the tourney to be held at the united centet


the tourney in chicago is not going to happen
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby austinsaluki » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:07 pm

I'm not overly excited about UIC; nor am I particularly disappointed, given that there just aren't any Creighton-level programs beating down the Valley's doors. On a purely quality of basketball level, Murray and Belmont would be better choices, but there are other considerations involved, namely travel. While Murray and Nashville might be attractive in terms of travel for us, they're not so much for the rest of the Valley schools: Chicago is pretty easy to get to for pretty much everyone--Murray not so much.

I'm pretty sure travel is going to play a major role in any decision that is made, and if there is further expansion, perhaps also keeping the two remaining "western" schools happy in travel terms. And obviously, if the rumors about UIC are true, potential market size is going to play a factor. For the latter two reasons, don't be surprised if UMKC and Rectal Roberts are given more consideration than you might think would be warranted from their basketball records. And don't be surprised if Murray is the odd man out in that scenario.

If that's the case, I'd be sorry to see Murray shunted aside, but I can certainly understand the business/politics behind such a decision.
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby Spike » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:11 pm

GoSIU88 wrote:
Spike wrote:To me, this seems like adding a program just to add a program, as UIC really brings nothing to the table.


except great academics, and the third largest market in the U.S.

No, they don't add anything.... :roll:
if the market you are
in doesn't care it doesn't matter how big it is
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby austinsaluki » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:18 pm

Spike wrote:
GoSIU88 wrote:
Spike wrote:To me, this seems like adding a program just to add a program, as UIC really brings nothing to the table.


except great academics, and the third largest market in the U.S.

No, they don't add anything.... :roll:
if the market you are
in doesn't care it doesn't matter how big it is


Somewhat true, but in this case it might depend on the market. The MVC has done a great job of marketing the Valley tournament, despite there being no members in that market. Marketing is a powerful force.

I would never have guessed that the MVC tourney would be a big money-maker in St. Louis, yet it is. Nor would anyone other than the people who had the cojones to guess that it would. In hindsight, it seems like a no-brainer, but hindsight isn't the way things work, is it? There were people just like you, many moons ago, who were saying that it wouldn't work. And their reasons given for it were legit at the time. But boy, howdy, how that has been wrong. :)

You just never know, do you?

Unless you're an idiot. Idiots always "know".

When you abandon that sophomoric certainty is when you start getting credit.
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby zsaluki » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:45 pm

FYI:

UIC was 18 - 16 this year with wins over Northwestern, Colorado St, Iona, Mercer, Wright St, Cleveland St, Milwaukee, and Green Bay.

They lost to New Mexico 66 - 59, Bradley 63-62, and at UNI (63 - 51) in the 2nd round of the CIT.

Their basketball arena holds 8000.
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby Spike » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:59 pm

In their final conference home game of the year, they had 918 fans.

Northwestern was 13-19 and #168 in the RPI.
Mercer was #137 in the RPI.
Wright State was #130 in the RPI.
Cleveland State was #199 in the RPI.
Green Bay was #160 in the RPI.
Wisconsin was #307 in the RPI.

Those are not impressive wins.
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby austinsaluki » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:06 pm

Spike wrote:In their final conference home game of the year, they had 918 fans.

Northwestern was 13-19 and #168 in the RPI.
Mercer was #137 in the RPI.
Wright State was #130 in the RPI.
Cleveland State was #199 in the RPI.
Green Bay was #160 in the RPI.
Wisconsin was #307 in the RPI.

Those are not impressive wins.


And Murray State's gigantic market brings?
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby austinsaluki » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:07 pm

And you're just going to ignore the whole travel thing, eh? Nah, there's nothing to consider here but what the fans of SIU want, since, after all, they're the dominant force in the MVC.

:oops:
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby Spike » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:14 pm

austinsaluki wrote:
Spike wrote:In their final conference home game of the year, they had 918 fans.

Northwestern was 13-19 and #168 in the RPI.
Mercer was #137 in the RPI.
Wright State was #130 in the RPI.
Cleveland State was #199 in the RPI.
Green Bay was #160 in the RPI.
Wisconsin was #307 in the RPI.

Those are not impressive wins.


And Murray State's gigantic market brings?

Well for starters Murray State averages about 3000 more fans per game and have a ton more exposure on television despite being in a market 254 times smaller and a school that has 3 times fewer students than UIC.

Not really sure why you brought up Murray State in the first place though.
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby saluki762 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:28 pm

Spike wrote:
austinsaluki wrote:
Spike wrote:In their final conference home game of the year, they had 918 fans.

Northwestern was 13-19 and #168 in the RPI.
Mercer was #137 in the RPI.
Wright State was #130 in the RPI.
Cleveland State was #199 in the RPI.
Green Bay was #160 in the RPI.
Wisconsin was #307 in the RPI.

Those are not impressive wins.


And Murray State's gigantic market brings?

Well for starters Murray State averages about 3000 more fans per game and have a ton more exposure on television despite being in a market 254 times smaller and a school that has 3 times fewer students than UIC.

Not really sure why you brought up Murray State in the first place though.

Every team that is a realistic possibility would be the lowest attendance in the Valley. UIC will see a significant jump in attendance during the conference season due to the other Illinois schools and their Chicago alums. I still like the idea of Belmont better but they averaged 900 less in attendance than UIC last year.
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby austinsaluki » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:30 pm

Spike wrote:
austinsaluki wrote:
Spike wrote:In their final conference home game of the year, they had 918 fans.

Northwestern was 13-19 and #168 in the RPI.
Mercer was #137 in the RPI.
Wright State was #130 in the RPI.
Cleveland State was #199 in the RPI.
Green Bay was #160 in the RPI.
Wisconsin was #307 in the RPI.

Those are not impressive wins.


And Murray State's gigantic market brings?

Well for starters Murray State averages about 3000 more fans per game and have a ton more exposure on television despite being in a market 254 times smaller and a school that has 3 times fewer students than UIC.

Not really sure why you brought up Murray State in the first place though.


Gosh, Spike, I have no idea why I brought them up, do you? :lol: :lol:

While you're crunching your little numbers, the MVC folks are trying to think about things like TV and exposure, and, if you had read what the grownups were talking about, issues that might keep certain members in the conference. Grown-up things like who wants to travel to Murray, Kentucky...grownup things like who, realistically, we can get to join the MVC. You know, things like that...
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby Spike » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:35 pm

austinsaluki wrote:
Spike wrote:
austinsaluki wrote:
Spike wrote:In their final conference home game of the year, they had 918 fans.

Northwestern was 13-19 and #168 in the RPI.
Mercer was #137 in the RPI.
Wright State was #130 in the RPI.
Cleveland State was #199 in the RPI.
Green Bay was #160 in the RPI.
Wisconsin was #307 in the RPI.

Those are not impressive wins.


And Murray State's gigantic market brings?

Well for starters Murray State averages about 3000 more fans per game and have a ton more exposure on television despite being in a market 254 times smaller and a school that has 3 times fewer students than UIC.

Not really sure why you brought up Murray State in the first place though.


Gosh, Spike, I have no idea why I brought them up, do you? :lol: :lol:

While you're crunching your little numbers, the MVC folks are trying to think about things like TV and exposure, and, if you had read what the grownups were talking about, issues that might keep certain members in the conference. Grown-up things like who wants to travel to Murray, Kentucky...grownup things like who, realistically, we can get to join the MVC. You know, things like that...

Yep. A historically very good program like Murray State is going to send people running for the hills but an awful program like UIC is going to get people lining up to sign them up.

And once again, I dont recall ever advocating for Murray State, so no...I dont get why you are bringing them up. Even so, Murray State would do more for exposure of the Valley than UIC would, I can damn sure guarantee you that.

Yes UIC is in Chicago, but it has no exposure there. Theres no fan interest. At a campus of 28,000 in a metro area of 9 million, they were outdrawn by crappy little Murray State by an average of 3000 fans per game. Murray State gets many many many many more games on television.

I want Belmont. They make sense. UIC does not.

Adding for market in the Valley's case is not palatable. Adding UIC is not going to improve their chances of obtaining a better TV contract(in fact, replacing Creighton with UIC makes the chances of a better TV deal worse). You have to replace with a good program, one that actually makes the conference better from a competitive standpoint.
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby zsaluki » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:14 pm

Spike wrote:In their final conference home game of the year, they had 918 fans.

Northwestern was 13-19 and #168 in the RPI.
Mercer was #137 in the RPI.
Wright State was #130 in the RPI.
Cleveland State was #199 in the RPI.
Green Bay was #160 in the RPI.
Wisconsin was #307 in the RPI.

Those are not impressive wins.


I would never try to impress an idiot. Not possible when they don't understand the difference between a fact and a wish.

Northwestern also had wins over Illinois, Minnesota, NIT champ Baylor, and Illinois State.
Iona was an NCAA team.
Colorado ST beat Mizzou in the NCAA (you left them out somehow).
Wright State was 23 - 13 and got to the finals of the Horizon League.
Mercer won 24 games and the Atlantic Sun. Won at Tennessee 1st game of the NIT. (Wichita lost at Tennessee by 10) Also beat Florida Gulf Coast once.

Those are some impressive wins by UIC.
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby austinsaluki » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:40 pm

Spike wrote:

I want Belmont. They make sense. UIC does not.



If you're only considering bball records, me too. But there are other things to consider: other V schools and the travel involved.

Know what? I want freaking Memphis. Why aren't we going after them?

And what a giant fail that (1) we aren't going after them; and (2) that they're not interested.

We're in a weird, rock/hard place here, OK?

And there are constituencies.

It's not about what you want, OK?

Look: I would LOVE for Belmont and Murray to come aboard, and it might actually happen--who knows? Would that be a good thing--to shift the Valley even further east?

Whatever is the answer, quit acting like that is the ONLY rational scenario, when it's not, and when, more to the point, there might be other considerations involved.
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Re: MVC Rumors

Postby GoSIU88 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:49 pm

The Valley tournament will never move to Chicago.
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